Riding London’s newest Superloop SL11: Views after the first week
London’s newest Superloop route SL11 begun life just over a week ago offering faster links between Abbey Wood and north Greenwich compared to the bus it replaced – the south east London mainstay that was the 472.
With the SL11 being free for the first seven days and heading between towns frequently travelled I ended up riding it about 5-6 times over the week and thought it’d be worth putting up a few notes on how it was.
Before I start I have criticised the route a fair bit since revealed. Well no, scrub that. The route is generally fine and an express bus is welcome. I criticised cutting the 472 bus entirely when the SL11 began which in turn sees a sizeable net reduction at some stops which includes thousands of new homes, and lesser so the choices of stops then taken by the new route.
This post will cover those new homes. The route passes about seven development sites skipped by the SL11 where the 472 did call.
That doesn’t affect me personally as I had no longer to walk to reach the bus compared to the 472 in Abbey Wood but that’s not something all passengers can say. A fair few lose out.
Starting in Abbey Wood the SL11 can be caught outside the station but I normally duck down to the stop under Harrow Manorway flyover to avoid the busy bus stops on narrow paving above.
Paving and road changes made on the flyover when the Elizabeth line opened weren’t TfL’s finest moves.
Throughout ta week of travelling I never managed to get on a New Routemaster that is supposed to operate the route until electric vehicles arrive. Older buses were brought in to cover for unreliability of the proposed buses.
Looking at at the Bus Times website at this moment shows four New Routemasters out of 15 buses operating the route so not a great improvement into the second week.
Frequency
Given the routes frequency is every six minutes, boarding at Abbey Wood didn’t take long at any journey. Also I must add that drivers were very friendly. Being the first stop they were often having a quick break between journeys but happy to let me on and have a chat.
After boarding the bus swings around to stop outside Abbey Wood station. Given the frequency no bus ever left very busy and all week few seemed to have more than a handful of people for most of the route.
Departing Abbey Wood station and we pass major development number one that’s skipped. That being Southmere Village in south Thamesmead.
Phase one is complete and phase two is now emerging from scaffolding and sheeting. Between them that’s 850 new homes not served.
The bus passes over the elevated roundabout and then does stop at the old boiler house stop. Though the boiler house built as a district heating network for Thamesmead no longer exists. I thought TfL still called it the boiler house stop but apparently no anymore.
It could be argued stopping there instead of the more densely populated area around Southmere Village is a mistake.
After that it’s a sweep around east Thamesmead where most stops formerly served by the 472 are avoided. Just one bus stop is still the recipient of a stopping SL11. This does slow down the “express” nature of the route. A few hold out their hands to the non-stopping bus but throughout most journeys not many did.
After that we pass another curious choice of stop. It’s not a factor in the Greenwich direction but SL11 services heading towards Abbey Wood doesn’t stop at the town centre stop closest to major supermarkets and the 1980s town centre. Instead it stops further away beside a half empty retail park.
I mean it’s not the hugest difference in the world as the retail park stop isn’t that much further but still, it is further. Granted, the stop closest to shops doesn’t really appear so given the back of Aldi faces the stop but if you know the area, it is.
West Thamesmead
By this stage about four SL11 had already passed in the opposite direction and their frequency seemed relentless. On a typical journey most looked empty. However, it must be noted that just about all transport changes are generally quiet initially and little can be read into long term success.
I’ve seen and heard just about all transport modes be it roads, rail and buses called white elephants in early days before becoming enormously popular. No doubt the SL11 will too, though skipping so many new homes won’t help it.
Which brings us onto west Thamesmead where 2,000 homes at Lombard Square are avoided. No bus stop has been placed outside.
Given the bus serves a quieter stop outside Belmarsh just beforehand it seems odd not to have a stop here in its place. An alternative would be to head down Nathan Way to stop there alongside. If the 472 has remained it could have went that way instead and called allowing the SL11 to sail by.
Various options to serve almost 2,000 homes but none taken.
Plumstead
Next up comes Plumstead station where we do stop and then it’s passing straight past another stop beside new housing. This site will see 282 homes as well as a new college which opens any day now.
So far we’re at a point where more than 3,000 new homes are skipped by the SL11.
Next up is Woolwich and the Elizabeth line station. It’s generally taken 15 minutes from Abbey Wood. A couple of minutes better than the 472. Still, not a patch on the Elizabeth line at three minutes or Southeastern and Thameslink at four minutes.
This is the busiest stop yet and a few get on. We set off and hit traffic. The 472 used to head via Woolwich town centre but the SL11 goes on via Beresford Street and Woolwich High Street. The trouble is TfL’s express bus is delayed by TfL putting bus stands here which usually causes tailbacks for buses.
Greenwich Council compound the issue by allowing parking in one of two lanes.
TfL propose a bus lane here but will retain the bus stands so buses will still have to join the single lane of queuing vehicles. Top marks.
We pass the forthcoming Ropeyards development and new towers beside the Thames.
There’s no stop here to cross the Thames and link with SL2 via the foot tunnel or Woolwich ferry.
More new homes
We’re now onto the longest stretch without a stop between Woolwich town centre and Charlton. Though given the road is being dug up for a couple of miles progress is slow. Road space in places will permanently reduce from two lanes to one when complete.
More traffic has also been seen in the area since the Silvertown tunnel opened and tolls applied to both Blackwall tunnel and the new link. Many now head to the Woolwich ferry to avoid the fee. That congestion was slowing down buses even before roadworks begun.
When TfL were exhorting how great Silvertown tunnel is for buses they never mentioned how diverted traffic would slow down many buses in Woolwich.
Next we sail past another major new housing development as we approach Charlton. This sees more than 700 new homes at two former estates. Not all homes are yet complete.
Charlton
A few short metres on and we’re in Charlton were, yep, another new housing development is skipped.
And behind that land has just been cleared for 250 more new homes. A school is also avoided.
Now we’re at 4,000 homes along the route which have seen a net reduction in buses due to the 472s axing and the SL11 not stopping beside.
After a crawl through traffic it’s a stop at Charlton station, then another at Bugsby’s Way before stopping at Ikea. After that we pass by the newest homes at Greenwich Millennium Village without stopping before calling at West Parkside on Greenwich peninsula.
Then it’s straight on the North Greenwich for the final station. Not all my journeys went the whole way but a couple did which took 40-45 minutes. Not too shabby at all.
Worth it?
So are faster journeys a worthy trade off for skipping so many stops including those beside thousands of new homes?
Well the question really is should there be a trade off. A fast route is great for me and many others but reducing buses so heavily at certain existing stops and beside new homes doesn’t seem a great way to entice bus usage for many moving to new housing.
Stopping the new route at all new major developments wouldn’t make it much of an express route of course, so that again leads us to the question of why cut the 472 alongside rather than have it serve new homes while diverting in places to open new links or restore lost connections such as between Charlton and Lewisham.
Yes, TfL want to save money but surely cutting in an area with thousands of new homes is the very last place to do so. That’s potential custom going begging.
TfL say other routes serves former 472 stops which is true but those other buses can get very busy even when the 472 was there to help. Now it isn’t they’ll busier yet and even slower. Does that encourage ridership?
Dated plans
Ultimately when riding the route numerous times last week the thought kept cropping up that it appeared to be based and designed around how things were five years ago and not today, let alone in two years when most of the new homes are occupied.
With so much new housing there was a case for retaining the 472 in altered form alongside this new, faster route. But even if we accept the 472 had to go, the SL11 stops seem odd. Stopping further away from Thamesmead town centre than needed for example.
Then there’s passing new homes in parts of Thamesmead to call at lower density areas. Introducing a net reduction of buses beside 1,000 new homes in the borders of Woolwich and Charlton.
All round the SL11 is a route I can see being moderately popular but increasingly be seen as odd when further new homes are occupied and others rise. And these new houses are being occupied as we speak. Plenty more are planned.
These Superloop routes need proper BRT infrastructure, nothing fancy, bus lanes and bus only filters in places. I’ve looked into some old commutes that might’ve used them, and they’re barely any faster at rush hour, or outside of it. Looks like I’ll be sticking to my car/bicycle.
Can’t fault the ThamesPath. Cycle time it would take to get to Gallions/Woolwich already halves the bus route.
Factor in an e bike/scooter and that’s it. SL11 is done
If only more people realised it was am option…
Interesting that there were only a few passengers on the SL11. When I caught the 472, there were normally people standing, so most 472 users don’t seem to be using the SL11. I wonder if they will reduce the frequency if it’s not used more.
There was an idea thrown around of SL11 serving all stops in Thamesmead specifically, but then going limited stop afterwards. Kind of similar of how SL6 (X68 in old money) operates.
Would’ve been interesting if it was done that way
They reduced too many stops, the congestion will continue since it doesn’t cover the nearest stops where people live. They have a bunch of s11 going but no one riding it
The SL11 has completely destroyed the 472 route. Why replace the existing reliable bus service with a new express bus service. BRING BACK THE 472 PLEASE!!
I agree bribg back.the 472 bus route. But need to.write to TFL explaining why the 472 needs to be reinstated which is exactly what I have done.
The more people that do write to TF regarding the SL11 and 472 the better. But let’s not also forget Labour controlled Greenwich Council have also backed cuts to local bus services including the axing of route 472.
TfL have lost the plot. Fine, introduce a faster express. That’s really good for some. What isn’t so good is removing the 472 so now my 177 journey is even worse as it’s picking up others in Charlton and Greenwich especially at school finishing time and it’s painful. The kids can’t get on. Do TfL management ever leave the office?!?
I agree bribg back.the 472 bus route. But need to.write to TFL explaining why the 472 needs to be reinstated which is exactly what I have done.
The more people that do write to TF regarding the SL11 and 472 the better. But let’s not also forget Labour controlled Greenwich Council have also backed cuts to local bus services including the axing of route 472.
I just don’t get on why would you want to to replace the 472 bus with the SL11 but I guess that the Superloop is going to take over other bus routes across Greater London.
Thanks for the review. I was turned away once by a 472 driver when I tried to use the bus terminus stop under the Harrow Way flyover. The driver told me that passengers can’t board at that stop and I need you to go up the stairs to the bus stop opposite the Abbey Wood rail and Elizabeth line entrance.
You seem to have more luck.
Oh no! Had 472 drivers argue with me a few times there
Buses should start picking up passengers from the first stop. So if the first stop is at the terminus then passengers should be allowed to board the bus at the terminus.
TFL have so much dead mileage on bus routes where no passengers are on the buses between terminus and firsr stop etc meaning less fare revenue makung the routes very expensive to ooerate. This includes buses having to travel miles to and from the garage at the start and end of bus route of the route.
One example is route 335 running empty between Kidbrooke Village and Dartford Garage at the beginning and end of shifts.
So allow passengers to board buses at more stops along the route even if the routes are extended to reduce dead mileage on some bus routes.
TFL need to look in to this issue about tbe amount of dead mileage on bus routes whete buses run light that cost both the bus operators and TFL money.
Route 472 should never have been withdrawn. Route SL11 should have been introduced additional to route 472 not replace it. So give people a choice like in other parts of London where a bus route has not been withdrawn when a Superloop route has been introduced m. So why TFL have done this beyond belief.
People do more local journeys by bus and travel for.a few stops.
We need more buses serving local areas and new developments not fewer buses and bus routes.
We welcome the DLR extension to Thamesead in a few years tine but DLR will go over the river Thames to areas like Gallions Reach and will have no impact on local journeys people need to make in and around Thamesmead Abbey Wood etc.
When the Superloop route SL11 was introduced. They could kept the 472 bus route and re-routed at Charlton to East Greenwich, Greenwich Town Centre and Lewisham.Shopping Centre via old route 180 routing. So the 472 become Abbey Wood to Lewisham via Thamesmead, Woolwich, Lower Charlton, East Greenwich, Greenwich Town Centre and Lewisham Station terminating at the Shopping Centre.
Serving new developments at Abbey Wood Thamesmead, Woolwich, Charlton, Greenwich and Lewisham.
Which ate all seeing thousands of new homes and student accommodation under construction or in the planning stages.
So demand for local bus services will increase over tne next couple of years has local populations continue to increase. Infrastructure is not keeping up with demand..
Was there an option to move the 472 bus route to a different location in and around Southeast London. As the 472 is now replaced by the SL11.
No it was never considered. Greenwich could have pushed for that during tfL consultations but they simply cheered on changes and never offered any suggestions for those see a loss of bus services. I’ve written about how a revised 472 could have served thousands of new homes not served by the SL11 as well as revised the link between Charlton to Lewisham, which would serve additional new housing not in place when the 180 was altered.
I agree with what you said.
Inefficient.
The previous 45-1hr BUS journey leading to the nearest area in the south east with the TUBE was bad enough (the South east truly are 3rd class citizens and should gave stayed as Kent…).
On realising that, in the time it took me to get to N. GREENWICH ( 6 miles away), from Abbey Wood, I came to the conclusion I’d rather spend that time crossing 4 counties in the midlands than suffer that commute. London is done for, and my sanity will not suffer any further. Unless of course your pay is solely dictated by profits, not public money, I’m still astounded it’s working for all many people…
How many thousands of homes in this route????? WHERE will they park/commute from??? The days of 472 being jam packed by the 7th stop haven’t gone away.
Maybe it’ll be better once the river crossing options have been finalised… in another 30 years🫠 Lizzy was a saving grace but the inflated costs do not make it a realistic option for the vast majority of AbbeyWood and Thamesmead’s population. Well. Until they’re gentrified to hell (Hackney/Stratford/Peckham style).
Anyway, great article. Still keeping my toes in to relay info back to the family and friends who r e m a i n.