DLR extension to Belvedere: Don’t bet on it say TfL
With Transport for London pushing a DLR extension to north Thamesmead – at the expense of Barking Riverside and Dagenham – there’s often calls for future services to then head to Belvedere from organisations such as Bexley Council.
In the past TfL have been keen to include such a possibility on maps to garner support for the extension to north Thamesmead but a response given this week at a Bexley Council transport meeting highlights just how unlikely such an extension appears.
When asked about any future onward link to Belvedere Transport for London stated:
“Belvedere is already served by the existing rail network, which provides passengers with fast routes to central London. Whilst an extension of the DLR would provide an additional rail option for Belvedere, it would add substantial costs to the project, without delivering journey time improvements.
“At present, there also isn’t a strong case that a further extension would lead to significant additional housing being built. Whilst TfL is not currently progressing this option at this time, the extension to Thamesmead will be designed as to enable the delivery of a potential further extension to Belvedere in the future.”
That support isn’t just tepid but almost stone cold. It’s about as clear a “no” as you’re likely to get.
No surprise
A lack of support for onward extension is hardly a surprise and those arrows to Belvedere on indicative maps always had the clear sign of a sop to garner support for an extension to north Thamesmead alone. A dangling carrot never to be eaten.
We only have to look at how long and arduous a process it is to get any infrastructure built with the Bakerloo line extension plan knocking about for 90 years, Crossrail for 30 years before being built and Thameslink 2000 arriving many years after the Millennium.
Even if the DLR to Thamesmead is approved, does anyone really think funding for an extension would be forthcoming anytime soon?
As TfL state it’d also be slow (much like the DLR from Thamesmead which is a major flaw with that idea) so who would use it instead of Abbey Wood Elizabeth line services via National Rail?
As the DLR needs to be separated from general traffic and grade separated any link to Belvedere would need to pass through built-up areas. More expense and opposition.
Need for grade separation (as opposed to a tram) is another reason why the DLR won’t head to Abbey Wood via central Thamesmead – where there’s scope for new homes – if it reaches north Thamesmead from Beckton. Yet another flaw in the Thamesmead DLR plan.
Transport improvements
What would help Belvedere’s future housing potential – including areas north of the station – is a link to both Belvedere and Abbey Wood stations for Southeastern, Thameslink and Elizabeth line services and there we get back to the old idea of a Bus Rapid Transit in the near term and possibly a tram long term.
Bexley council do envisage up to 8,000 homes in Belvedere with around 2,000 already submitted or approved at a range of sites.
A £23 million Bus Rapid Transit link was supposed to open in 2026 linking north Thamesmead to Abbey Wood and Woolwich Elizabeth lines. That’s now delayed until 2029. However it won’t head east to serve major new housing plans in Belvedere or Erith.
To the west it stops at Woolwich and would not extend to serve up to 8,000 homes proposed in Charlton nor up to 20,000 across Greenwich peninsula as once planned with the Greenwich Waterfront Transit scheme.
A branch off the proposed BRT route at south Thamesmead at a spot beside Southmere Village could head east along dual carriageways along Yarnton Way to Belvedere past proposed new homes such as at SGN’s gasholder site.
It’s all wide 1960s and 1970s roads around the area which can accommodate a dedicated Bus Rapid Transit lane and in time a tram.
Thamesmead, Belvedere, Erith all have wide roads linking each other almost tailor made for better transport and dedicated BRT or tram services.
Much of it was built for the Thamesmead that never arrived. In places such as Yarnton Way between south Thamesmead and Belvedere Bexley Council have reduced the road to one lane with hatches across half of the tarmac.
Not many places are as well positioned for transport improvements as here.
Barking
Any extension to Belvedere from a DLR extension to Thamesmead brings to mind mention of a hypothetical future extension to Dagenham Dock if the DLR goes to north Thamesmead instead.
Sure, it’s technically possible but if the Thamesmead extension is built don’t expect it to happen and as stated on this site a hundred times that then leaves Barking Riverside’s 20,000 homes and 50,000 residents with one solitary, low frequency London Overground station.
South of the Thames TfL’s DLR plan provides just one solitary station in the north of Thamesmead that doesn’t link to Abbey Wood via central Thamesmead, almost certainly won’t extend east to Belvedere and prevents four DLR stations across Barking Riverside and Dagenham Dock (where another 3k homes are rising) north of the Thames.
TfL had the right idea in the 2000s: DLR extension from Beckton via Beckton Riverside to Dagenham Dock and a tram from north Thamesmead to nearby railway stations taking five minutes with excellent onward links, before heading west of Woolwich to serve housing growth areas to the west.
Add a branch to Belvedere and Erith at the junction of Harrow Manorway and Yarnton Way in south Thamesmead and we see excellent transport links benefitting tens of thousands of potential homes.
The north Thamesmead DLR plan instead now pursued is a bodge job born from prior Boris Johnson failings when Mayor that achieves far less. TfL letting out the truth about any Belvedere extension merely reaffirms that.
Does Belvedere even need a Docklands Light Railway? TFL are right to highlight the station. Have the Thameslink’s call there and that’s a big boost already in capacity at 2 tph. Extend the length of Southeastern trains in years to come and that’s another big boost. It’s a 12 car platform and line but nothing longer than 10 car runs.
I’m not sure where Bexley propose 8,000 homes anyway as it’s not exactly a massive area. Losing industry?
If some future housing zones are remote from the station rapid transit and tram sounds good to thread the area together and into stations. Same with Thamesmead and Abbey Wood station.
Bexley have never been too explicit as to where the 8k housing figure for Belvedere came from.
I’d expect industrial land either side of Yarnton Way which includes their own land. Other parts are next to former gasholders which have plans for 400 homes. Perhaps Peabody also have eyes on redeveloping the eastern extremity of Thamesmead which I don’t believe is part of the current 7-phase Housing Zone. If so a BRT or tram could head through all these areas. A DLR wouldn’t as it would go via Eastern Way.
Looking at land size and comparing to similar developments that land could see 5k homes to give a general guess. Couple with 1,250 to the east and a few of hundred around the station (eg Asda site) may make 8k.
I don’t think that the DLR would extend to Belvedere via Thamesmead but I think it should extend to Abbey Wood and to have a new station and connection with the Elizabeth Line and National Rail (Thameslink and Southeastern). And to see the extension to Dagenham Dock with a new station and connection with c2c.
It’d be good to see cost per kilometre for tram v DLR. I’d expect DLR to cost more given a need to be either buried in a tunnel or upon a viaduct if heading to Belvedere or Abbey Wood while a tram can operate at street level. The aerial roundabout in Thamesmead would be a challenge though perhaps also an opportunity if it could be remodelled to provide space for development. I wonder how long it’s design life is given it must be nearing 50 years of age and similar structures need work doing.
I do feel if this was another European or Asian nation the tram would be built to link housing areas on projected growth zones. In the UK we don’t seem to like trams very much on the whole save a few networks such as Croydon but compared to other world cities it’s all very limited. There’s this obsession with the DLR regardless of where it is. I get it, it’s a known thing. But it doesn’t appear best for this area with just one station stop.
I think it’s possible to see the DLR extension to extend to Belvedere and to have interchange with Thameslink and Southeastern services that do serve Belvedere. But I actually think that it should extend to Abbey Wood so that it would have interchange with the Elizabeth Line as well as Thameslink and Southeastern.
FFS what does it take to get Thamesmead RECOGNISED?
I think extensions just need to be built, without much consultation or consideration. Instead of spending years deciding what and where to build, just build and people will move over the next decades to make it work.
Reality is Jon that won’t happen and London if lucky will get one project over the next 10-20 years. If its a short extension to north Thamesmead that’s a waste of precious funds as going across the river won’t be cheap.
I’d extend from Beckton to Beckton Riverside as already proposed under the Thamesmead plan but instead of heading south across the Thames keep it east via Barking Riverside. That way it allows 10-15k homes at Beckton Riverside, supports 20k at Barking Riverside and however many are possible at Dagenham Dock (5k?). 40k homes supported and cheaper as no building as yet on much of the proposed route.