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Camera enforced fines for traffic offences go live across Greenwich

Fines for poor driving will begin today across Greenwich borough as a two week grace period comes to an end.

CCTV cameras are not for general parking enforcement nor speeding. They can only be used against a set number of driving offences and fine income is ringfenced to transport and highway spending.

A full location of sites can be seen below. It does not include a number of areas where poor driving can be seen on a daily basis, though does include areas many complain about such as Blackwall Lane where drivers exit the A102 in an attempt to jump queues before ignoring no right-turn signs and re-entering the road:

Offences cameras can monitor include parking on “keep clear” markings outside schools, prohibited left and right turns, U-turns, ignoring no-entry signs and stopping in yellow boxes at junctions.

Greenwich Council is one of the very last in authorities in the capital to introduce the measures and become the 30th of 32 to do so since powers were given 15 years ago.

 

23 Comments

  1. Roy

    Speeding should be No 1….this is just messing around…no serious intent…..the ones,who speed are showing their lack of consideration for other people while driving a 1 tonne block of metal……and are the first to complain about speeding fines….I never complained when I was fined for speeding..it was my own fault

  2. RC

    The cameras at the Millennium Way bus stop/stand are going to be the biggest cash cow for the council in this list. Buses rarely use that site, and so it’s become a pick-up/drop-off point for people using North Greenwich tube station. Vehicles tend to be parked there for only a few minutes before moving on.

    There is nowhere else for drivers to park for such a short stay. It will be particularly punishing for those with luggage, elderly visitors and of course, those in a hurry. And don’t expect us to use the buses given that service intervals are now longer and buses are cancelled on a whim.

    So I imagine the dual carriageway at Millennium Way will just become a single lane, as drivers learn of the cameras and avoid the bus stop area and stop dead in the middle of the road adjacent to it, which will be especially dangerous for those exiting/entering the cars.

    As any driver in the borough knows, Greenwich despises car users and reduces provision for them wherever possible. No doubt the parking that was once available at Kidbrooke Station will be gone when it is finished. Is there a pickup point here too, I wonder?

    Given these places are transport hubs, cars should be included in the planning – they are a form of transport after all – but instead we live with speeds bumps and 20mph limits everywhere, the endless creep of residents’ parking and hostile parking charges. And now cameras in an area where travellers can get taken to/from a station swiftly and not have their journey times hugely increased by inadequate bus services that are unlikely to take them exactly where they need to go.

    This is a pathetic ‘woke’ council. If public transport and cycling is so great, why are there so many Royal Borough of Greenwich vans around then? How about these guys turn up to places on a butchers’ bikes with tools and paint in the basket? Come on Greenwich, think of the environment and the virtue signalling Brownie points. We’re waiting…

    • fromthemurkydepths

      If it despises cars why does did it offer such strong support for a road tunnel, why so slow to enforce traffic issues and wait 15 years to bring in cameras and why does it do so little to enforce poor parking all over the borough? I believe bus drivers have regularly complained about Ubers blocking roads on event nights. Also, with ever more venues it cannot see more private vehicles dropping off in coming years.

      • RC

        You write about this council enough to know that that it is complacent but it doesn’t mean it can’t be bloomin’ awkward when suits. Parking is constantly being revised in residential areas which is the low hanging fruit. Once imposed it doesn’t change, it just gets worse.

        As for Ubers on event nights, that’s bad planning. There’s all that space out there plus multiple venues and the planners couldn’t/wouldn’t design some airport-style pick-up/drop off area that would avoid interference with the bus routes. So don’t blame motorists for idiotic planning. I, for one, avoid that area but when Southeastern weekend engineering works are scheduled (which has been going on for years), it’s the only choice for my partner to get to work and back. It’s not a perfect world but good planning, instead of constant restrictions, would go along way to making it better in this borough.

        • fromthemurkydepths

          Another key factor is that Silvertown Tunnel construction is also going to halve the width of roads in the area soon.

          Though it’s been very slow to introduce resident parking in some areas. Abbey Wood’s new zone for example is three years late and no sign even after they signed it off. If they were so anti-car would that happen?

          It’s tricky but if they offer drop off would we see many trying to use it and resulting congestion? There’s also the Design District coming soon which will entice thousands more.
          Add together the o2, Magazine, design district and regular tube users plus silvertown construction and there’s a strong possibility that a drop off point would be overwhelmed and clog up bus users.

    • Jo

      Millennium Way is often a mess of badly parked cars. This action is needed as the Magazine music venue barely got underway before coronavirus hit but with a large outdoor area should be one of the first to open to people. Corona will pass and soon we’ll be back to thousand sof people trying to navigate cars parked by idiots.

      Thousands don’t expect to drop off and pick up in cars at other major London venues and transport hubs like Brixton.

      You also seem to not realise that reducing car use helps those requiring vans like council maintenance staff picking up flytipping and large items.

      You also say bus services aren’t great, then fail to see that maybe loads of cars and people blocking bus lanes may be a factor there.

      To be honest the rest of London would shock you given how lax Greenwich have been. Maybe best to live in a village somewhere?

      • RC

        In my experience, the cars are parked on Millennium Way are there temporarily.

        As for the Magazine Music venue, I assume it’s open late and so there will be a trickle of people exiting throughout the night. And when it closes it will be late and there will be so few buses that it’s unlikely any Ubers would disturb them.

        It seems to me you are expecting young women, who may well be half cut, to leave Magazine and take the night bus and then totter home from some bus stop in the wee small hours. Wouldn’t a door-to-door taxi be safer? Wouldn’t some proper planning for car/taxi arrivals in this area make this whole problem less of a problem altogether?

        That’s the real issue here. There’s no aforethought in this council’s action. And its support for the Silvertown Tunnel is proof enough of its stupidity. I’m not so much pro-car, as pro transport, pro getting from A to B with the least amount of hassle – sometimes on foot is the best option, sometimes a train. However, the council’s planning seems at odds with making getting around easier and we’ll all suffer when/if the Silvertown Tunnel becomes a reality because it supported TfL’s dubious traffic modelling rather than looked to see what was outside its own front door.

    • GB

      While I’m not big fan of the council, attaching labels like “woke” and “virtue signalling” to this is just incredibly lazy.
      It’s so easy to attach those labels to things to people don’t like. But it doesn’t make sense does it?

      Do you really think the Council and/or TFL are doing any of this to be “woke”?
      Theres been a global pandemic and now Councils have to decide how to move millions of people through the City everyday….What do you think the best way of doing that is?
      Everyone driving their own vehicle?
      Doesn’t really make sense when you see the size of cars people are driving these days on roads intended for horse and cart does it?
      That 20mph limit you’re bleating on about is for public safety. (i.e. more people survive a collision at 20 than they do 30mph) As for the speed bumps, well if people know how to drive better and actually followed the limit, we probably wouldn’t need them would we? But thats not the way things are.

      Public transport? Ok great, but having people packed together isn’t a great idea so not a lot of people want to do that. So whats the next solution? Do you have one?

      As for the council van’s, there isn’t a viable eVan yet. But it is coming and I’m sure the council will adopt them as the writings on the wall for petrol/diesel vehicles.
      Just ask a eBlack Cab driver. They’re professional drivers who have taken on the responsibility and invested in new technology. Are they “Woke”? Are they “Virtue Signalling”?

      • RC

        Public safety would be better served if people were educated about road safety rather than a nannying culture that removes personal responsibility by wrapping us all up in cotton wool. More people survive by looking where they’re going, regardless of the speed that traffic flows at.

        I’ve always been of the view that if traffic moves faster, people get to where they need to go quicker and so they spend less time on the roads, consequently there will be less congestion, as many will have parked up that much sooner. Instead, we crawl through these streets in low gears using up fuel inefficiently and polluting the air not just from engines but with the dust created from repeated braking.

        One of the problems with this country, and especially this city, is our traffic light sequencing. It’s deliberately obstructive; you get through one lot only to be stuck at another lot 50 yards later. I gather some countries in Europe, that have a rather less antagonistic relationship with the car, actually notify motorists that if they keep at a certain speed, when they reach the next set of lights they will be green and so on. That’s called an incentive and yet it hasn’t caught on here yet, sadly.

        The council has made plenty of idiotic decisions of late. It was late to the party on social distancing measures to increase pedestrian areas on high streets, preferring instead to introduce planters to block roads without consultation, that were eventually removed due to public outrage. So yes, I’d say it does like to virtue signal and, when it comes to telling us how to live, the woke seem to have all the answers.

        And I don’t think that Sadiq Khan’s knee-jerk reaction to massively reduce tube services was particularly well thought out, as that was a major cause of overcrowding. He’s Mr Green too, isn’t he? And yet he nodded through the Silvertown Tunnel. And if anyone thinks that Greenwich Council was being car-friendly by going along with it, wait until the road pricing hits. How many bridges in Central London cost nothing to cross, and yet we’re going to be charged for the Blackwall Tunnel as a consequence. And how much more traffic will we see on local roads as drivers look for ways to avoid charges to travel to places on roads that were previously free.

        Like I said before, it’s just bad planning and apparently, deliberately so with the aim that we all live work and shop locally like we’re in some workers cooperative housing project, as going anywhere is either too expensive or just takes too long.

        • Get out of the bubble of your tin box on wheels. Driving is a privilege and not a right.

        • GB

          I totally agree with people being educated about road safety, the standard of driving I see is absolutely shocking. All road users should be vigilant and shouldn’t take anything for granted where there is a ton of metal moving at speed.

          For your following points to revert back to what I said previously. The roads we have in the City just aren’t made for the sheer amount of vehicles on the road.
          Funnily enough this video from Jay Forman echo’s what you say about planning:

          But it’s a decades long issue, not one that Khan or Greenwich has come up with.
          I’ve driven across America and in Europe, yes some countries have it right but some of those counties have a lot more room for well thought out infrastructure. We don’t have that in London. It’s a very very old City.

          The entire Country has has been late to move on anything to do with the Virus.
          I really don’t think Greenwich is any worse than any other Borough. (I can’t believe I’m sticking up for the Council here)
          I had to pick up some materials from Lee (Lewisham Council) a few weekends back and they had the planters there also which people hate so it’s a widespread problem. Perhaps it’s Government guidelines?

          I agree that they haven’t consulted enough on those but they’re not telling you how to live, they’re trying to get people moving and I’m sorry but individual car usage is not the answer. Particularly when you see the size of cars people are buying these days.
          I actually love driving as much as I love cycling, but driving in London is not pleasurable and it hasn’t been for a very very long time.
          Also how or why do you feel like the “woke” have all the answers? I’m unsure what you mean about that?

          I agree with what you say about the decision to reduce Tube numbers, it wasn’t thought out. And I agree with what you say about the Tunnel. I’m hard against it.
          I got my consultation paper YEARS ago (maybe a decade?) and on my reply I said it would just invite more traffic and they would just continue to charge for the tunnel years after it was paid for – just like Dartford now. Move a crossing further down the river so HGV’s can get in the M25 easier if there’s a problem at Dartford, freeing up Blackwall.

          I don’t agree with your feeling of being cooped up in your local area, you can go elsewhere freely, it just means you have to change your method of how you do it and I get it rubs you up the wrong way.

          • RC

            Thanks for your reply GB, sadly, some responses assume I am a petrolhead but I haven’t owned a car in 10 years. When I lived in North London my dual fuel LPG/petrol car was stolen and then my locked pushbike was stolen, neither have been replaced.

            My partner has a car that’s 20 years old and will have to be disposed of when the ULEZ extends to the South Circular (oh, the irony given the plans for the Silvertown Tunnel). It is a low mileage, economical saloon car but just not in the Euro 4 (NOx) category. We don’t live together, so I don’t drive it unless she wants dropping off somewhere.

            I get around on foot or train. I don’t like buses much because the speed bumps make journeys fairly uncomfortable. Take a ride on the 386 and you’ll be in no doubt. Undeniably, cars are convenient and for some people, pretty much essential. I’m not one of those people, obviously, or I would own one.

            I just see a stupid war being fought against car owners – road planning seems designed to slow everything to a crawl promoting congestion rather than relieving it. Parking is overpriced or disappears creating more problems with congestion because journeys are extended as drivers look for somewhere to park. In North London, I witnessed red routes destroy local businesses; removing areas where people could park for 30 minutes for free, make their purchases and move on.

            People complain about dying town centres, but Councils throughout the country have time and again created a hostile environment for road users. They need to make up their minds about whether they want visitors to town centres or whether they’d prefer everyone to visit out-of-town retail parks. If it’s the latter, then business rates need to be revised for struggling town centre shops who are suffering because of these planning biases.

            As for the virus, I’m with Sweden. Its leaders took the view not to rely on just the one model from Imperial College and its questionable data. But here, a fearful mindset was allowed to flourish and it seems we’re struggling to put the genie back in the bottle.

            I agree that cars have grown absurdly large. You could fit the original Mini inside the ‘new’ Mini with room to spare. Side airbags and other safety measures no doubt account for the swelling. Perhaps when it comes to cities one should drive a city car and not a Chelsea tractor? I don’t have all the answers but personal transportation isn’t going to go away. We need to address the issues with incentives, not obstructions, as the latter is the catalyst for congestion.

            And so we’re back to cameras outside a transport hub with no pickup points. As @Jo remarked. “Thousands don’t expect to drop off and pick up in cars at other major London venues and transport hubs like Brixton.” Just for comparison, Brixton Academy has a seating capacity of 2,315 whereas as the O2 Arena is 20,000. Brixton Academy is also a very short walk to the Victoria Line tube (which is one stop away from the Northern Line) and a railway station, plus a regular stream of buses. North Greenwich tube and buses pale in comparison. And yes, the idiotic planning in this area makes travel a nightmare after events, but that’s Greenwich Council for you. No imagination and no insight into how people who don’t want to travel north or west might want to get home.

        • GB

          I did reply to your post at length RC but it didn’t get published for some reason. Anyway, I’m sure this stuff is going to come up again!

          • fromthemurkydepths

            Sorry about that it went into the pile that needed specific approval for some reason. No idea why. I went and looked have approved.

          • RC

            P.S. Loved the Jay Foreman YouTube video, GB. Thanks.

  3. Resident

    Are there cameras automatic with zonal sensors it is it someone sitting behind a desk watching them whenever they want?

  4. JR

    Not a single one in Charlton SE7 despite some poor driving down Woolwich Road. Based on their requirements it seems there needs to be more box junctions or no right turn signs for them to set them up.

    And why do they spell it ‘Millenium’ Way?

  5. Greenwich Park Fan

    When will we know how many tickets have been issued?

  6. HK

    Where on Earth do people pick off and drop of passengers at the O2? You can’t even drive into the NCP car park for a few minutes to drop people off!

  7. @RC: I made the assumption that you are a ‘petrolhead’. Sadly all your talk about educating road users will fall on deaf ears. Further, there is a hardcore of drivers who are not willing to have their freedom to go everywhere in the car curtailed, so planning has to do it for them.

    You made the point about controlled parking zones and I am all for this. My road is a five minute walk to a train station and because there is no parking restriction, commuters leave their car there all day. If my road and the others that are close to the station became a CPZ, a lot of drivers would have to find another way to get to start their rail journey as they could not rely on all day free parking.

    I am a driver who lives metres from a bus route and only take the car when absolutely necessary – heavy shopping or infrequent trips to the DIY sheds. My car has not beeen driven for over a week as I use the bus or walk.

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