472 bus route ends for good this week for replacement Superloop
This week marks the last days of the 472 bus route before it ends for good this Friday – save for overnight services.
Superloop route SL11 will commence this coming Saturday on exactly the same route as the 472 but calling at fewer stops. It’s the only time a new Superloop route has seen an existing route almost entirely killed off save for the N472 which will run between midnight and 5am.
Normally existing routes are altered or see frequency changes but not wholesale removal when Superloops begin. While excellent for those who live near and stop, it’s of course less positive for those who don’t.
Diamond geezer has done his usual excellent write up today highlighting TfL’s poor information at bus stops and has covered the reduction of calling buses at many places. The whole project raises questions about TfL’s knowledge of south east London, poor communications, impacts on Thamesmead in particular as well as knowledge of current housing changes along the route.
Upon looking at planned stops many who know the area generally greet it with a baffled look. Why is it stopping almost everywhere in low density areas such as west Thamesmead but sailing past areas of mass, high density new housing? Are TfL even aware of the new housing?
Thamesmead stops
As an example who decided it should skip south Thamesmead and a bus stop beside 863 recently built or forthcoming homes at Southmere Village phases one and two? Phase two is now just about complete in places just in time for bus service reductions to Abbey Wood station.
It also appears to skip a Thamesmead town centre stop closest to the town centre and shops such as Morrisons, Iceland and Aldi but will stop at stops on either side further from many shops and amenities. Great for getting your shopping home. Those places it does stop nearby are low density suburbia.
Skipped stops also includes a non-stop run of two miles between Woolwich town centre and Charlton heading past 700 homes at the Morris Walk and Maryon Grove estate rebuilds which are currently in the process of seeing residents move in (in the case of the former estate. The latter is to commence soon). Nearby sits another newly built block and next to that demolition is underway for 250 more homes.
In total around 1,000 new homes are set to see a reduction in buses to North Greenwich tube station to the west of Woolwich to the east. The Royal Greenwich school in Charlton will also not be served as the 472 currently does and stops there can get very busy.
Hundreds of new homes at Greenwich Millennium Village’s latest stage which are now just about complete will be skipped too.
A new college building in Plumstead will see SL11 buses head past without stopping. That development sees almost 300 homes alongside. The college was supposed to open in 2025 but the latest word was January. If they make it the college will sees fewer stopping buses starting the week before it opens.
Frequency
On the plus side frequencies are higher than the 472 at every six minutes according to bustimes.org and higher than what TfL previously stated. It does raise the question though of why not operate the Superloop at frequencies of every 12 minutes – as most SL services do – whilst retaining the 472 at lower frequencies if budgets insist in order to still cater for areas of new housing.
The 472 needn’t stick entirely to the same route as the SL11. In west Thamesmead, for example, it could divert along Nathan Way rather than Western Way to serve the bus stop immediately adjacent to 2,000 new homes at Lombard Square.
At it’s western end it could bring back the link between Charlton and Lewisham lost when the 180 was diverted. That would handily also pass new homes and enhance services along Lewisham Road where a major estate rebuild is now all but complete comprising more than 1,000 homes.
Regardless this has all been said before. For those who will gain a faster journey (like myself) it’s good news but less so for many. It also flies in the face of improving public transport for new homes in many areas along the route.
Bus change
For those 1,000 new homes, for example, on the stretch between Woolwich and Charlton it’s a long walk to the next SL11 stop. The hoppa fare does allow transfers now but requiring a change isn’t the same as a direct route.
The funny thing is TfL are seeing major issues with declining bus use. Faster buses can certainly help turn that tide and the idea of the SL11 is certainly good, but in turn cutting buses serving thousands of new homes is hardly helping to encourage potential growth from those residents.
Anyway, make the most of the 472 and I’ll hopefully be on the SL11 this coming Saturday to enjoy a speedier journey – and looking at the poor sods en-route set to see a worse service.
This should not be happening and is a huge mistake by TFL to completely axe the 472 route. I agree the SL11 Superloop route between Abbey Wood and North Greenwich Station would have been hugely popular when we only had the Jubilee Line at North Greenwich. Now passengers living in Abbey Wood and Thamesmead can board Elizabeth Line trains at either bbey Wood and Woolwich Elizabeth Line Stations.
Would have made much more sense to keep the 472 which could serve the many new developments around Thamesmead, Abbey Wood, Woolwich, Charlton and Greenwich Peninsula.
So I hope we will see a new bus route in the area covering the old 472 route and possibility extended to Greenwich Town Centre and Lewisham via the old 180 routing..
Absolutely Graham. Route 472 should not be being axed. Route SL11 should have been introduced alongside route 472.
Other areas of London have not seen an existing route axed when a Superloop route has been introduced. SL3 still operates alongside the 269 for example..
The only route to be introduced as an independent Superloop route so faris the SL4 Canary Wharf to Grove Park.
We need more bus routes intrroduced locally and existing bus routes frequencies increased so buses run more often.
Sadiq Khan Mayor of London anf TFL have being chipping lazy at bus services for years with many routes seeing reduced frequencies and bus services cut back or completely withdrawn. We say enough is enough. Hands off our bus services..
They should extend some bus from North Greenwich to Royal Victoria/Excell. I live in Royal Victoria and have no benefit of the tunnel. SL4 nearest stop is on the other side of the Lea and 129 in West Silvertown. Here they are new developments, but the DLR frequency has been reduced and even with DLR you need to go to Canning Town and then change to Jubilee. Cost more than a bus ride and isn’t quick. End then there is the shuttle for cyclist that usually goes empty, but you cannot use it without a bike.
Nostalgia for the 472 which I used to take for many years from Woolwich to North Greenwich to jump on the Jubilee Line. Thats when it was reasonably quick and before other options like the DLR and Elizabeth Line were available to make it to Westminster.
Personally I’m very much looking forward to the new super loop bus as the journey to work with the 472 is so inconsistent. By the time it would arrive to my bus stop in thamesmead, it would already be either completely packed, too full to even stop, or running several minutes late. One of the big reasons I’ve noticed is the amount of schools it serves on its journey, which either means the bus is a lot slower or doesn’t even let you on due to all the kids travelling to school. The new super loop route skipping the Charlton school stop is an absolute blessing, hopefully that one reduction alone might bring the travel time down from the current 40-50 minute range.
The issue is by not retaining the 472 in some form – even at a reduced level – school children will then pile onto the remaining other services slowing them down and causing crowding similar to the issues mentioned.
Why the 472 wasn’t retained alongside in an altered form is a key question. Every other Superloop in London either introduced or proped hasn’t seen an existing route cut.
I can only assume TfL have lost a lot of their knowledgeable staff given how little sense stops on this route make. Even Woolwich town centre is odd. The 472 currently peels off to bus only roads and is pretty quick. The SL11 in theory should be quicker but the new route meets currently narrowed roads due to long term roadworks and construction until 2027/28 at the earliest.
Why not keep The 472 as it is and SL11 to be introduced in service as SL11 would have lesser stops in between and the 472 would still continue to serve the local people.
This is speculation but either it’s because a) There’s a lack of space at North Greenwich Bus Station b) A lack of space at Abbey Wood c) Cheaper to run two separate services rather than 24 hours. In both cases for a) and b), couldn’t TFL just extend the 472 beyond NG or AW (perhaps following the 229 route to Erith) or reroute it via the old 180 routing to Lewisham. Otherwise, why not extend the 335 if spaces at NG are limited.