TfL reveal a number of bus changes in south east London
A number of bus routes in south east London will see bus timetable alterations and vehicle changes in coming weeks.
One of the biggest changes comes from 6 December with electric vehicles arriving on many routes including routes 51 between Woolwich and Orpington, 244 between Abbey Wood and Woolwich, 178 between Woolwich and Lewisham, 291 between Plumstead and Woolwich and finally the B11 between south Thamesmead and Bexleyheath.
The 244 will switch from single decker vehicles to electric double-deckers. Over the past week double-deckers have begun to operate but older diesels at this time in advance of new electrics.
One change for the 244 is ditching the stop at Belmarsh in Thamesmead when heading in the Abbey Wood direction. This could be in advance of diverting the route through a planned bus-only road though that new link is still someway off as consultation has only just commenced.
Service reductions
It’s not all good news as service reductions are on the way on route 51. Transport for London state “frequency reduced to every 12 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays. The frequency will remain at a bus every 15 minutes during the evenings and all day on Sundays.”
Route 178 also sees a reduction with “a new timetable on all days of the week with the frequency reduced to every 20 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays. The frequency will remain at a bus every 20 minutes during the evenings and all day on Sundays.”
A similar story is seen with the 291 “with the frequency reduced to every 12 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays.”
Routes 178 and 291 both serve Queen Elizabeth hospital in Woolwich.
Reducing the 178 in particular is bit eye opening given it serves areas of mass housing growth at Lewisham, Kidbrooke and Woolwich.
Housing sites passed along the route include hundreds of new Greenwich council homes nearly ready for new residents in Kidbrooke as well as TfL’s own 619-home development.
Hundreds more units are also well underway from Berkeley homes with thousands more due in coming years.
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Service Improvements
On the bright side route B11 between south Thamesmead and Bexleyheath goes back to every 15 minutes. It’s a route that’s chopped and changed numerous times in the 25+ years I’ve used it. Formerly every 30 minutes it then improved to every 20 minutes if memory serves then every 15 minutes before going back down to 20 minutes.
It starts outside south Thamesmead at the former Tavy Bridge area now rebranded as Southmere Village.
Mitigates cuts?
The increase from every 20 minutes to every 15 minutes doesn’t however make up for incoming cuts to buses in south Thamesmead from early 2026 when the 472 is axed and replaced by the SL11, which will not stop beside hundreds of homes.
Not only is the B11’s frequency even post-improvement half that of the soon-to-be-cut 472 but it’s also far slower and far more convoluted. Rather than a two minute bus ride to Abbey Wood station it goes all round the houses (literally) of south Thamesmead.
The blue line above is the soon-to-be-cut 472 from south Thamesmead’s new homes with the red route being the B11.
There are other routes from new homes in south Thamesmead to Abbey Wood station but losing around seven buses per hour in the peak is a sizable loss in provision. One supported by TfL and Greenwich Council it should be noted.
On a wider levels across London buses are performing terribly in terms of passenger numbers and against TfL budget expectations. A new TfL report again lays out the issue. A post on that will be online soon.
Reducing the frequency of the 178 surprises me given its the only link between Kidbrooke and Woolwich for onward DLR and the Elizabeth line connection. I expected an improvement if anything given it also serves Thomas Tallis school, links Kidbrooke to QE hospital and in the other direction Lewisham with ongoing major change. That’s an oddly short sited cut.
It also passes the just-approved Leegate centre redevelopment though granted after many years of talk and no action there it’s unlikely to be occupied before the route is tendered again.
Not something which can be said about Kidbrooke’s 6,500 new homes. I recently had a wander and wrote a post with Greenwich Council’s sites with hundreds of homes now occupied or soon to complete, TfL’s 619-home site two thirds complete with residents moving in and Berkeley building hundreds right now on the 178 route. One block in phase 3 looks as good as finished.
https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2025/11/13/barely-staffed-southeastern-station-sees-6500-homes-rise-in-kidbrooke/
Kidbrooke is pretty poorly served given the scale of change. The station is left unstaffed a lot of the time, rail cuts introduced in 2022 remain throughout much of the day and now a bus service reduction is coming.
The electric buses will not be running on the routes for a considerable time.
The routes operate from Morden Wharf garage which has no chargers. They may have to wait for the new Thamesmead garage (if approved and built).
Route 386 is reduced to a bus every 20 minutes (from 15) despite the increase in student numbers at the Shooters Hill 6th Form Academy.
Yep it won’t be imminent. There’s conflicting information on the 386. TfL set out emails stating a reduction in daytime service frequency but their bus changes website states only in the early morning:
“Route 386 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with the frequency increased to every 20 minutes during the early morning on all days of the week. The frequency will remain at a bus every 15 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays”.
The frequency cuts to routes 51 178 291 are outrageous and people need to campaign against these cuts which are totally unacceptable. Routes 178 and 291 serve Queen Elizabeth Hospital which has very poor parking facilities. If you can even find a parking space and pay at the machine your still likely to receive a parking ticket. Route 178 serves Kidbrooke Village where hundreds of new homes are being built and demand for bus setvices will increase. Routes 178 needs a frequency increase not a frequency decrease. Routes 51 and 291 need to retain the current frequencies of every 10 minutes.
It is however good news tbat route 244 will be operated witb a full fleet of doubles deckers. it is also good news route B11 will see the day time frequency increased to every 15 minutes during Monday to Saturday daytimes. Route B11 should also be extended back to Thamesmead Town Centre.. The area is set to see the busy 472 bus route axed iin January. Being replaced by the limited stop SL11 whuch will not stop by many of the new developments on Thamesmead..
TFL should introduce a new X122 route between Thamesmead/Plumstead and Crystal Palace via Woolwich, Westhorne Avenue, Lee Greev, Lewisham, Brockley, Forest Hill, and Sydenham running in addition to route 122 and not replacing route 122 which is the case with the 472 and the SL11. Ni Imber day route was axed whenna new Superloop route was introduced. Greenwich and Bexley Boroughs alwaysx receives a raw deal from TFL.
Absolutely right KM. Another raw deal by TFL for bus services in the area. But let’s not forget Greenwich Councillors also tend to back tbe cuts to bus services as they will not go against their Labour Mayor For Londom Sadiq Khan who also oversees TFL.
We got another draw deal from TFL when they reduced the number of passenger bus services to serve the Silvertown Tunnel from 5 to 2 bus routes with one route being limited stop service SL4 which last stop is at Sun In The Sands this side of the river. The other route being the 129. The route that was proposed to serve the Silvertown Tunnel from the Eltham and Kidbrooke area was axed. Despite large scale construction taking place providing thousands of new homes in the Kidbrooke area and in Woolwich..
I am also appalled that TFL are reducing the frequencies on routes 178 and 291 which serve Queen Elizabeth Hospital..Despite major issued with parking at the Hospital. Route 178 is the only bus route serving the Hospital from the Lee Green and Lewisham area.
We need to show our disapproval to these bus service cuts by contacting TFL Customer Services and at the ballot box in May’s local elections.
There cuts are doing nothing to encourage people to walk cycle or use public transport more.
I have complained to TfL about their confusing information. The notices on the stops state 20 minutes all day. The buses will all be slightly longer with more seats in time.
What’s the point in getting a bus? I’ve been travelling from Sydenham to Woolwich/Thamesmead lately and on a good day the 122 bus takes just under two hours door to door. The train is 1 hour 20 minutes and walking (I walk fast at 4mph) is two and a half hours.
So the walk takes the same time as the bus takes on a bad day but it comes at zero cost, added exercise, and without some arsehole with their phone playing videos through the speaker.
London buses, despite being frequent, comprehensive and cheap, are torture solely because of the sheer amount of vehicles on our roads, and as such are a last resort for me and I’m sure others as well.
We’ve been loving the new 244 double-deckers, much needed through West Thamesmead, and really glad to hear that they’re dropping the ridiculous and long pointless Belmarsh loop.
I do wonder if now the 244 is a double-decker and with the proposed bus lane if they’re looking at it as the real 472 replacement, maybe even run it through East Thamesmead to serve the stops lost to SL11? It would be nice if they were to trust us with the full master plan, instead of dripping these changes out one at a time.
The 286 route from Greenwich cuttysark to Queen Mary hospital Sidcup it one route tfl should definitely improve as the buses themselfs break down a lot and are old a suffer from bad brakes every time they jerk when stopping and people falling over when standing or getting off nightmare for old people and some dodgy drives I I don’t know why they having to change drivers at Eltham station and having to wait it’s not exactly a long route compared with other local routes ie 161 122
Pity the 286 wasn’t in the equation only it has the worst buses in se London continually breaking down dodgy breaks people keep falling over when it breaks sharply and it’s not a big route compared to the 161 and 122 so don’t know why they have to keep changing drivers for at least 10 minutes at Eltham station to continue on to Queen Mary res Hospital
Cutting the frequencies on routes 178 and 291 serviing Queen Elizabeth Hospital is absolutely ridiculous. These routes should maintain their current frequencies. Route 178 is the only route serving the Hospital main entrance from Lewisham. Buses serving the Hospital are very well used by staff patients and visitors..
I appreciate the positive development of new electric buses, particularly for the 178 route, which I use regularly for my commute. However, I am concerned about the proposed reduction in service frequency. This route already experiences inconsistencies in punctuality. It is a critical transportation link for Kidbrooke Village, Thomas Tallis School, and Queen Elizabeth Hospital. For many, this is the sole bus option for this route, and a reduction in service appears to be a shortsighted decision. The implementation of a second bus on this route, extending to Woolwich, would be a more effective solution.
Absolutely the relatively short routr 291 Plumstead (Woodlands Estate) to Queen Elizabeth Hospital via,Plumstead Common and Woolwich Town Centre could be extended to Kidbrooke Village via Baker Road, Shooters Hill Road, Well Hall Road Rochester Way and Kidbrooke Park Road setving Thomad Tallis School and new developments on Rochester Way and Kidbrooke Village. While providing new links to the QEH and tbe DLR Stations at Woolwich Arsenal and the Elizabeth Station.
London bus route net site has confirmed route 386 will be reduced to every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday day srtvtimes.
So routes 178 291 and 386 all seeing frequencies cut despite serving the Queen Elizabeth Hospital..
So the message to Sadiq Khan Mayor of London. TfL bosses and local politicians is “Hands off our bus services”. We need to see service improvements not service reductions.
@ CDT. Well said “Hands of our bus services” Mayor of London, TFL and Local Politicians. The Council back the cuts to bus services so do not be fooled by them.
We need to see some real change in 2026.
You are not wring B Wensah. Now if route 178 gets delayed or a bus cut our for what ever reason passengers could fa e a wair of up to 40 minutes between buses. This is not acceptable. In reality the 178 could have done witb a frequency increase from 15 minutes to every 12 minutes rather than reducing to every 20 minutes.
We have seem .massive development along the 178 route at Lewisham, Kidbrooke Vlillage and in Woolwich. With thousands of people moving to tbe area which will had to demand for bus services. TFL and the Government want more new developments to be car free but they are doing nothing to reduce car usage as TFL and the Government ate not offering any real alternatives like high frequency local bus routes serving local areas including schools, hospitals, town centres etc. Suoerloop routes are not the only answer as most people make more localised journeys by bus. I agree their is scope to extend short routes like the 291 and 335 to provide new links to areas that need to see bus service improvements like Rochester Way in Kidbrooke, Kidbrooke Village, Westmount Road and Westhorne Avenue in Eltham and the Mottingham Area. Where people have been asking TFL and Greenwich Council for bus service improvements for years.
Cutting buses already as TFL need to pay for Thamesmead DLR?
Absolutely Steve. We all have to pay for the Thamesmead DLR although most of us will never use the DLR Station at Thamesmead or use ito cross the river from Thamesmead.
The majority of people living on Thamesmead will tend to make more localised journeys. I am not against expansion the transport network but not at the expense of local bus services.
The DLR extension will not be built for another 10 or 20 years anyway..