Murky Depths

News in London and beyond

Greenwich

Greenwich pub landlords spoken to after opening for outside drinks

Courtesy Google

Greenwich police have stated they are talking to a couple of landlords in Greenwich after pubs opened in recent days for outside drinks.

Police stated this morning “We are aware that a couple of pubs may have been open over the past couple of days in Greenwich. Details have been passed on to our Licensing Sgt & Royal Greenwich. Their Landlords will be spoken to about potential breeches.”

The Plume of Feathers placed markers outside so people could keep apart while the Greenwich Tavern sold drinks from a window to those queuing.

Guidance does seem odd. People are expected to be able to go to garden centres next week. Is that essential? Looking at images of the pubs it doesn’t appear that different to people queuing at shops and takeaways.

One continual issue appears to be lack of consistency in what is permitted or not.

People in parks are not allowed to sit down yet in some town centres there’s no space to avoid people when walking to shops due to lack of movement on creating sufficient space.

 

 

 

33 Comments

  1. Take away the licence.

  2. HK

    I’m glad you can see the ridiculousness and question the lock down meassures.
    I question the response and get abuse for merely raising questions to the points in the above article.
    All you have to do is have a quick search online from the very same people telling us we must obey the lock down but broken it themselves (Neil Ferguson, Justin Trudeu, various governors in the USA including one who was criticised for getting her hair done, news reporters etc etc).

    It’s ridiculous that people are being spoken to for merely sitting down in a park and are nowhere near other people, yet you can go on a bus or tube that could be full of people etc.
    The inconsistency doesn’t make sense at all!

    The way the lock down is being policed is having a major impact on the way everyday people are viewing/trusting all levels of authority (police, government, advisors, media etc).

    Dare I say, the response may be worse than the virus itself in the long term (not to dismiss those who have been severely ill or have died because of it).
    I know i’ll probably get heat just for this post!

    • HK

      More specifically regarding the pubs that are selling drinks, that would probably be some sort of breach of the licence I would imagine (I don’t know the details).
      I wouldn’t want their licence to be revoked – pubs must be in despair. It’s reported that 4 or 6 (sorry I can’t remember) out of 10 may never reopen.

      People are going to be shocked on the economic effects despite the furlough & business loan scheme!
      I can speak from personal experience working in an extremely big company based in Greenwich (I don’t name it due to obvious reasons)

  3. B San

    HK I agree to a large degree however the initial lock down was a knee jerk reaction at short notice. Given that the government has had sufficient time now to review the impact of the ban and make formal modifications. I am hoping that this will be part of the next presentation from Boris as we emerge from lock down. It just strikes me as a waste of police resource to enforce rules that have not been thought through thoroughly.

  4. It is all a bit odd. You can do this with coffee just down the road.

    • HK

      I agree! The inconsistency of the rules make it a farce hence people won’t respect the guidance.
      I mean, when you see reports of individuals relaxing in literally in the middle of nowhere getting spoken to the police (drones etc), but yet there are big crowds of shoppers in the supermarket or public transport and that’s ok, it doesn’t make sense.

      • ‘… yet there are big crowds of shoppers in the supermarket or public transport …’

        No there isn’t. Supermarkets are operating strict entry controls and you clearly haven’t seen the very long queue for the Sainsbury’s in Charlton? The buses continue to run mostly empty despite TfL having suspended tap to pay.

        Covid-19 is an extremely virulent virus with no vacine in sight, and it is still killing hundreds of people per day. If this is not an emergency, I don’t know what is. I would rather be bored at home than fighting my life in ICU with my family waiting for me to recover or die.

        • HK

          The stats are highly disputed. It’s admitted that the Covid is put down on death certificates even though it’s not proven to be and when the deceased had an existing severe medical problem (even terminal). Hence you hear reported ”x number of people died positive ‘with’ covid19 not ‘due’ to covid19′.
          There are plenty of families who are angry and speaking out this.
          Most of the response of the virus is down to a 15 year old model that’s highly criticised for being inaccurate.

          This article is a worthwhile read! 🙂
          https://www.businessinsider.com/neil-ferguson-transformed-uk-covid-response-oxford-challenge-imperial-model-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

          • fromthemurkydepths

            How do we explain thousands of excess deaths per week above 5 year averages (thus not cherry picking one year) creating all time record highs even accounting for population growth, and far from all mentioning Corona on death certificates? If covid was being overplayed overall excess deaths wouldn’t be so high.

          • The stats may be disputed, but the reality is that hundreds of people a day are dying who would not have died in the absence of Covid-19. These are inconvenient truths for some and I hope it doesn’t rebound on them.

  5. Graham

    I am just really concerned that there will be a second wave of the Covid-19 virus if social distancing continously ignored.

    So agree the landlord has to be spoken too with the possibility their licence will be revoked. Other businesses have been forced to close so why should these landlords be any different.

    I am also against primary school aged children being used as guinea pigs.by sending small children back to school first. It will be harder for some parents to have a child or children in school while their other children are not and have to remain at home.

    Also a lot of primary school children do not go to the school closes to their homes possibly because they moved home. So are taken to school by public transport often with their siblings in tow so this can cause another problem for social distancing on public transport.

  6. HK

    Of course there will be a 2nd spike, it’s natural as you can’t prevent it!
    The fact is we can’t be on lock down forever, and with the exception with some small number of vulnerable people, will recover fine.
    There are many people at risk of dying and have died due to the lock down measures – suicide, domestic abuse, cancer treatment, people with serious health conditions avoiding going to hospital etc.
    The vulnerable should take commonsense steps to minimise their risks but everyone else should be able to return to work etc and also take good hygiene steps.

  7. CDT

    I agree Graham children should return to school when it is asolutely 100% safe for them to do so. These are little children who’s bodies are still developing unlike adults.

    Many adults will now be able to return to work if they cannot work from home.

    Restrictions still apply for those in a vulnerable or sheilding group or work in hospitality. Who should remain at home for their 12 weeks as originally stated or until July when the hospitality industry may re-open. .

    It is hard for social distancing to be maintained in pubs clubs restaurants etc. Hence a lot of business owners talking on TV news channels etc clearly stating they would rather remain closed for a little longer under lockdown rules. So when they do re-open they can open properly rather than reducing the amount of customers being allowed in the premises as they state themselves social distancing not practical.

    Of course there will be a second wave of covid-19 with so many people blatantly ignoring the social distancing rules. We still need to protect our NHS.

  8. Asdfg

    Geeze people like hk really tick me off. Why dont you just come right out and say what your mean. Just let them die let nature take its course its all gods will. Yes the number is small as a percentage but its still a very big number all the same. if 70% get it (number required for herd immunity) in the uk that is 67m x 70% x 1% which equals 469,000. You can safely double this number because of non covoid deaths because no one else can be treated. So close to 1 million people we should juat let them die should we? I assume your not in a vunerable group.

    • HK

      Like I said in my original post I will get people get angry at me for my opinion.
      When did I say let people die?
      I said those who are vulnerable should take reasonable precautions.
      I’m personally not in the vulnerable group but my father is.
      He is 66 years old, diabetic and has had a heart attack in the past, yet he comfortable enough that he is willing to go to work everyday. If others don’t fine, they don’t have to and should stay at home.

  9. Sally F

    Greenwich tavern is a dive, terrible food, that tastes pre packaged and have seen mice in the back garden, inside the pub, and surrounds, also terrible service. Avoid.

    • HK

      To be fair, mice are commonplace in Greenwich to the sewage system i think. I’ve seen a few out and about walking around in Greenwich.

        • Sally F

          Yes, but if I had my household there, I’d do what I could to control them, seems that this business can’t.

          • HK

            There is only so much you can do if the problem is in the garden and doors left wide open with customers coming and going. It’s a never ending battle.
            I remember seeing plenty of mice in my former place of work in the centre of Greenwich (wasn’t food related). The problem was the old buildings and old sewage infractucture that runs under Greenwich – far too many entrances for mice to enter.
            The bosses had rentokil out a number of times but couldn’t permanantly solve the problem.

          • Sally F

            HK seems very defensive on all points, I feel they may be one of the business owners. Seems very odd to me.

          • HK

            Nope, i’m not a business owner or defensive, just stating my observations. I’ve lived in the borough all my life and worked in the town center for 2 companies since the beginning of my career. I use to help in the stockroom of a shoe shop on the corner and got to see what it’s like in the basements of a few of the places in the area.
            The drainage systems and state of the old buildings in general were quite shocking. A few building should really be demolished and rebuilt to a better standard but it’s unlikely if listed.

  10. Graham

    Sadly pubs were closing at an alarming rate before the Covid-19 out break happened. So sadly some of these pubs will still close.

    The down turn in customers in partly due to larger pubs chains like Whetherspoons which are cheaper for both drinks and food. Other closures were due to anti social behaviour and drugs being found on the premises etc.

    I think there is some confusion over the very vulnerable people who received the 12 week shielding letter from your GP or Hospital Consultant with more serious underlying health conditions who should stay at home.

    The other vulnerable group are people with less serious underlying health conditions that can go out but take extra care and precautions to keep themselves and others safe

    • HK

      I agree with all your points.
      Those who are seriously vulnerable and have serious preconditions should take extra precautions, but everyone else should have the restrictions eased over a reasonable reason of time and be mindful to take reasonable hygiene precautions.

      • CDT

        Absolutely HK good hygiene precautions are very important.

      • Now you are being contradictory. You say ‘… my father is … 66 years old, diabetic and has had a heart attack in the past …’. Many of the people who have died from Covid-19 had underlying health conditions.

    • J P

      May I ask what’s the difference between a pub that’s opened a window and selling takeaway beer, obeying the distancing laws and a supermarket selling alcohol? If someone buys a can of beer and sits in the park should we close the supermarket? This new found care that we have for the vulnerable is wonderful. shame we don’t do it every flu season when 17000 die in the country annually. But now we know this we can continue this forever to save lives. It would be extremely hypocritical of us not to. As by not doing so is an admission that the deaths caused by flu in the future flu seasons are not as important to us than those we are trying to save now.

      • Andrina Westerdale

        This is very true.
        Of course there is, or used to be that phrase “it’s just a virus…”

  11. Dave

    The rules are the rules. A number of pubs are doing home deliveries e.g. cans, pints sold in plastic containers, mini casks. A couple I have heard are selling via the backdoor albeit you order online or by phone, pay at the time of ordering and then pick up at a pre-arranged time. Nothing wrong in either case but selling outside drinks is asking for trouble.

    • Kevin

      It is the selling drinks outside that could cost these landords to have their licences revoked on a temporary or permanent basis.

  12. Kevin

    I think the techincal;issue here is that pubs clubs and restaurants were officially ordered to close by the Government unlike supermarkets who were not officially asked to close by the Government.

    It may be up to a Magistrate to decide if the landlord is warned or has his licence suspended or revoked.

    • J P

      Technically pubs and clubs were ordered to close their business but encouraged to offer takeaway services. Food and drink. So much so that the A5 classification you normally would need has been wavered for 12 months to allow pubs and restaurants to continue to trade all be it under restrictive conditions. You’re alcohol trading conditions still have to be adhered to. If the pub doesn’t have an off premises licence they can’t sell alcohol takeaway but most pubs will have an off premises licence.

  13. Kevin

    Thank you for the update JP.

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Theme by Anders Norén