New Routemasters set to operate forthcoming Superloop bus SL11
Superloop SL3 at Abbey Wood. Forthcoming SL11 will use the same vehicles.
New Routemasters are set to operate a forthcoming Superloop route from 24th January when route SL11 commences
While electric double-deckers are eventually planned to run they won’t be ready in time so New Routemasters are being dusted off to operate. Not a popular choice with some given heat in summer, lower capacity than other double deckers and a long wheelbase which sometimes makes turns pretty tight. Their previous use on SL3s ensured regular bumping of kerbs or waiting for gaps at junctions.
The SL11 will run between Abbey Wood and North Greenwich along the exact same route as the current 472 bus, which will be entirely cut save for overnight services operating as the N472.
Removing the high frequency 472 bus ensures thousands of existing residents along its route – as well as thousands moving into various new developments all along – will see a substantial net reduction of buses at their closest stops.
Thamesmead
That includes much of Thamesmead, which sort of makes a mockery of TfL’s regular claims they want to improve public transport for Thamesmead. See also bus cuts on the 229 linking Thamesmead to Abbey Wood station which are being introduced the very same day the 472 goes for good.
While a faster bus will of course be welcomed by many – and of benefit to me personally as a regular 472 user – it’s clearly not great for those losing out nor likely to encourage bus use from those moving into new homes. Why the 472 isn’t retained with an altered route to better serve and connect areas seeing major housing growth alongside the SL11 – as happened with other Superloop routes in London – has never been answered by TfL, nor Greenwich Council who supported the 472 cut.
I get it. Money is tight and buses are struggling, but this route serves numerous major housing developments. It exhibits a severe lack of understanding of housing and population changes in the near future across Thamesmead, Abbey Wood, Plumstead, Woolwich, Charlton and Greenwich.
Thamesmead transport
In fact, TfL and Thamesmead have an odd relationship full stop. They often offer inaccurate claims about Thamesmead when it comes to the DLR plan and supporting the town (giving massively excessive current journey times to, say, Canary Wharf or Stratford from Thamesmead to support the DLR plan and based on journey times in the 1990s before the Elizabeth line and DLR arrived at Abbey Wood and Woolwich) and previously didn’t even want the SL3 to serve Thamesmead.
They seemingly fail to realise many in Thamesmead – both existing and future residents – will want to reach Abbey Wood or Woolwich for the Elizabeth line and so persist with the flawed DLR project which will do nothing to improve that situation.
Even with the previous Superloop route SL3 it took a fight to get it. They initially had the SL3 only going as far as Bexleyheath with no route linking to Abbey Wood and Thamesmead.
Sadly when TfL came knocking again with cuts to the 472 for the SL11 – despite many new homes – the fight was lost. Not helped by Greenwich Council doing nothing to prevent it and in fact supporting the move. Neither did Peabody, not the local MPs along its route including Housing Minister Matt Pennycook.
With friends like that…
You may have expected someone who supports new housing to oppose public transport cuts serving new housing in his constituency, but nothing was heard. It’s similar to rail cuts. Opposed in opposition. Silent now Labour are in power and retaining those cuts.
Agree that Thamesmead has done very badly in transport links. But surely the new DLR link will make a difference to Elizabeth Line access – since it’ll mean you can get the DLR from Thamesmead to Custom House and then the Elizabeth Line from there. (It’ll also allow getting the DLR to Canning Town and then Jubilee line to either central London or Stratford).
For the majority of Thamesmead reaching Custom House (for onward journeys) will still be quicker via Abbey Wood. Why use the DLR when a bus will still be required to reach it from much of the town? Instead someone could take a bus to Abbey Wood where the Liz line is faster (6 mins to Custom House) and more frequent than the DLR will be. It’s very likely someone taking the DLR will have to change for their destination en route as well. Unless living practically on top of the DLR stop it’ll be of little value. The Liz line trumps almost every time and improving access to it should be the priority. Even from some parts of the proposed new housing areas in north Thamesmead it’ll make more sense heading to Woolwich then Liz line. Having grown up and worked in Abbey Wood and Thamesmead the use cases of the DLR are very limited. I’d rather see the substantial sums planned on a tunnel under the river instead put funds towards mass transit linking all of Thamesmead to nearby Liz line stations as well as linking projected major housing growth areas and stations in Erith, Belvedere, Plumstead, Woolwich, Charlton and Greenwich.
@Simon R: ‘… surely the new DLR link will make a difference to Elizabeth Line access …’. 😂😂😂 The DLR extension is YEARS’ in the making.
The DLR will open up many new direct links to employment, leisure and education opportunities such as Gallions Reach, UEL (Cyprus), Royal Albert and ExCel. Not to mention Canning Town and beyond. Once the extension gets built along with more housing I expect TfL will add more bus services.
Also the New Routemasters used on the SL3 were amazing according to my children who used it daily to get to and from school in Sidcup. The double staircase made getting off much faster, and the seats were more comfortable than other buses. I heard the SL11 will run every 6 minutes during the day on Mondays to Saturdays. If that’s true, this is much more frequent than the current 472. It also means that passengers transferring from a connecting bus won’t have to wait long. In fact journey times will work out much faster for most passengers at that frequency.
With the New Routemasters I don’t mind them but I know a lot don’t like them. It won’t be every 6 mins I’ll check the frequency.
In terms of the DLR all those places are already easily accessible via the Liz line now from Thamesmead/Abbey Wood. Taking Thamesmead Central as an example it’s 3-4 minutes on a bus to Abbey Wood station, 5 mins to change, then 6 minutes on the Elizabeth line to Custom House for Excel. Total journey time 15 minutes. Excellent commute time that many would love. With the DLR it’ll be 2-3 mins on a bus, 5 mins change (though DLR will be lower frequency than Liz line is) then around a 10 mins journey. Liz line wins. Similar for west, east and south Thamesmead. UEL and Gallions Reach are currently not much longer with a change at Custom House. I’ve just checked the TfL journey planner and Abbey Wood to Gallions Reach is 15 minutes currently. Cyprus for UEL the same. It’ll be better when the temporary cut in DLR service provision between Beckton and Canning Town is restored after the new trains are in service.
DLR brings little for much of Thamesmead considering the £1bn cost of a tunnel and one solitary station in the north of Thamesmead. More residents would benefit to a far greater degree with mass transit to Abbey Wood and Woolwich for the many more destinations, job and leisure potential the Liz line, Thameslink and SE Metro provide. Buses are/or the BRT proposal are sufficient now but mass transit would also facilitate mass housebuilding as the DLR will, but £1bn would go a lot further to benefit nearby growth areas such as Belvedere and Erith rather than just north Thamesmead.
I think you’ve already made up your mind on this one. For the record, I think you’re wrong. Even if you choose to ignore the new direct connections to schools, employment and leisure, the DLR is needed, if anything to alleviate overcrowding at Woolwich and Abbey Wood. As Thamesmead gets more populated it’s own rail link is essential to improve connectivity and reduce additional flows of people passing through Woolwich and Abbey Wood.
The SL11 will eventually run with electrics so the new routemasters will be gone at some point. The SL11 timetable is up. Every 6 minutes. Look at the flow from Abbey Wood in the morning. It’s a very impressive upgrade on the 472 which was roughly every 10 minutes. It might be the most frequent Superloop route to date. https://bustimes.org/services/sl11-north-greenwich-bugsby-way-charlton-woolwich?date=2026-01-26
It’s made up in so far as I’ve come to this conclusion having looked at cost and the financial environment (we’re only likely to see one big capital project in London for the next two decades at least I fear) plus ever changing housing totals either side of the river under revised masterplans and Local Plans. Ideally we’d not see such limited funds on transport projects in London but I cannot see any government doing anything at scale for many years sadly nor permitting devolution to enable it. With that in mind this DLR plan is the least cost-effective to provide new housing in London. At least the tunnel element to north Thamesmead. Beckton to Beckton Riverside extension makes a huge amount of sense as would extending to Barking Riverside and Dagenham Dock.
I agree about crowding at Abbey Wood and Woolwich and that makes the case for second entrances at each stronger which I’d long called for many years before opening. TfL said not needed. Much like my position with the DLR and other projects now, looking at projected housing and it seemed clear that was a mistake. It often seems bodies like TfL, DfT etc are looking at housing models that are far behind the current plans. In the context of limited funds I’d put new entrances at Woolwich and Abbey Wood above the DLR. It’d be great to have both but I fear its either/or. Woolwich is reaching a point even without new homes in Thamesmead where work will be needed. It seems every week I’m covering a new development being submitted, approved or commencing. Which reminds me the student block is looking ever more complete and Brookhill estate demolition coming along. Ropeyards and Woolwich Central both start imminently. Will hopefully take some pics of progress soon. Then there’s the potential Woolwich Dockyard estate rebuild just revealed. Another 1,000 net new homes that wasn’t widely expected.
In terms of TfL and housing, we can say the same now for the 472/SL11. The SL11 will be great for many including me, but sheer number of new homes means entirely axing the 472 which serves 1000s of new homes which the SL11 won’t is short-guided. Good to see that frequency given TfL previously stated lower. For me it’s great but I wonder if the left hand knows what the right is doing. 700+ new homes are built as part of “One Woolwich” while the 472 is cut. Nearby 250+ homes in Charlton and the same. South Thamesmead likewise.
New Routemasters are most certainly not comfortable.
I hear that a lot. I don’t mind them though. Then again the ironing board seats on trains don’t bother me. Luckily no health problems so it may be different if so.
The SL11 will be every 8 mins in the day and 12 on Sundays. Better than the 472 though cuts elsewhere such as those announced with the 229 route do negate the overall benefit for those where the SL11 will stop in parts of Thamesmead. If living in areas such as east or south Thamesmead where the SL11 will not stop, it’s a double whammy of service reductions from the 472 and 229.
Correction. The frequency has been increased. From around 6:45am Mondays to Fridays and 8am on Saturdays the SL11 will run every 6 minutes. https://bustimes.org/services/sl11-north-greenwich-bugsby-way-charlton-woolwich?date=2026-01-26
Excellent. No idea why previously TFL told me every 8 minutes and which is what I saw on their site just now when I googled.
The SL11 Superloop Route will bevgreat for people wanting to catch a train from. Abbey Wood Station, Woolwich Elizabeth Line Station or North Greenwich Station from Thamesmead. I think passengers will also like the temporary use of new routemasters on the route.
That said route 472 has been a brilliant high frequency route with buses running approximately every 8 minutes during the dY on Monday to Saturdays and every 12 minutes on Sundays a very similar timetable to the new SL11 from the 24th January..
The loss of the 472 bus route remains a huge loss for the residents in Thamesmead and along the old 472 route. Many bus stops will no longer be served by the new SL11 meaning many people have lost their lical bus link to North Greenwich Station..
New developments developments will alsi not be served by the SL11.
Like with other superloop routes across London the SL11 should have been introduced to operate alongside existing route 472 and not to fully replace the 472 route completely..
There is still a strong argument to keep thd 472 in some form possibly by operating ot between Abbey Wood and Lewisham via Thamesmead, Woolwich, Charlton, East Greenwich, Greenwich Town Centre and Lewisham. Restoring the link with Greenwich and Lewisham Town Centres lost when route 180 was re-routed to North Greenwich Station a few years ago despite huge opposition to the changes from local residents..
The DLR extension to Thamesmead will open job opportunities for people with links to East London.
However, a lot of journeys are made more locally for work school shopping and visiting the doctors or dentist..
I totally agree that the 472 should not have been axed when tbe new Superloop route SL11 is introduced from 24th January 2026.
I also agree route 472 could have been re-routed at Charlton and extension to Lewisham via the old 180 route via Greenwich. Town Centre.
Thamesmead will be grateful to have SL11 Superloop bus route and the DLR extension. With the whole part of Thamesmead to be redeveloped and re-generated with better transport links for those who commute into Central London and across Southeast London.
I can see more Superloop bus routes to be added in other areas in London as well the Bakerloop BL2 of the Bakerloo Line extension doesn’t happen.
Other areas around London that don’t have a Superloop could potentially have a Superloop bus route. Such as Uxbridge, Ealing, Ruislip, Enfield, Walthamstow, Ilford, Romford, Dagenham, Bexleyheath, Biggin Hill. Croydon, Sutton, Wimbledon, Twickenham, Richmond, Chessington and other commuter towns in Greater London that don’t have good transport service could rely on having a new Superloop. And to see the Superloop expand across Greater London. That’s if TfL wants to expand the Superloop further into outer London.