Still no confirmed order for new Southeastern trains after nearly three years wait
It’s now almost three years since a tender was launched to replace Southeastern’s venerable Networker trains.
Published in November 2022 the tender looked at replacing the bulk of Southeastern’s metro trains with new stock.
Back then it stated “the new fleet must be manufactured and introduced into full, unrestricted operational service by October 2027”.
That’s not happening.
New train delays
It’s pretty much inconceivable that even if an order was confirmed tomorrow it’d make that deadline. Many recent train introductions have taken years and seen delays.
The most infamous example is Class 701 Arterio trains on South Western Railway which have taken five years longer than planned.
Then there’s long distance stock with new intercity trains on the Midland Mainline currently three years late into service.
See also delays to new DLR stock which were due to start running by April 2024.
It’s tricky to think of any major fleet that’s entered service on time.
Large order
The Southeastern tender is for a substantial (and wide ranging) quantity of vehicles between 350 and 570 with the option for up to 70 additional vehicles.
The range of trains is possibly due to deciding what to do with 36 Class 376 stock and 30 Class 707 City Beams. Go for a big order and cascade some to Southern? Retain and have three different fleets for many years to come?
The 376s are currently seeing a mild refresh and Southeastern branding applied to aren’t going anywhere soon while the City Beams had Southeastern fittings applied.
Cascading those trains also now looks less likely as Southern are gaining a net increase in stock via trains moving south from Great Northern who in turn are seeing additional stock that formerly operated under Greater Anglia.
As part of that process 13 trains are moving from Southern to Southeastern with some Networkers going to scrap though the vast majority will remain in service.
This merry-g0-round and the advent of Great British Railways in 2027 could all be hampering any firm decision being taken. The Department for Transport will have to agree any new order and its the same DfT that have not permitted many cut services to be restored.
They don’t exactly appear keen to invest in Southeastern metro despite it serving many areas designated to see some of the country’s highest level of new housing.
Shortlist
In 2024 there was an update on the tender process to state five bidders had made a shortlist, but those five are pretty much every rolling stock manufacturer there is.
So to recap there’s no confirmed order after nearly three years, if one does happen construction and implementation will take many years if other stock introductions are any guide and numbers to be built are substantial ensuring it’s very likely more than 100 Networker trains will be plugging around for some years to come.
Will they make it to 40 years of age? Quite possibly. Not that that’s a huge problem if reliability holds up and they’re kept in decent condition inside.
However it does put back level boarding, air con and higher capacity via walk-through carriages.
Would it be optional to lend Southeastern some of the Class 387/1s from Great Northern on hire. Since they inherited the Class 379 from storage and were previously used on Greater Anglia.
And Alstom who are most likely are the preferred bidders to manufacture the new Adessia fleet that might not be in service until 2028, 2029 or in 2030.
And South Western Railway who have slowly started using the Class 701 Arterio and the Class 455 to be sent for scrap.
Why the rush to replace the Networkers? I don’t understand….
They’re wonderful trains: despite their age they look beautiful and sound fantastic, about the only criticism you can level at them is that the doors between carriages can be a bit dodgy and there are superficial problems due to lack of basic care and wanton vandalism (seats separated from their mountings, peeling paint) but what those trains don’t know about south east London simply isn’t worth knowing. I’m always happy to see the curvy cab of a Networker pull into my platform.
Me too – I love the Networkers! They were made in Britain and are the only trains that are level with the platforms so that there’s no gap and no big step up. I hate the gaps due to a vertigo problem, so I’m always very relieved to see a Networker coming along. They’re also smooth and comfortable, they accelerate well, and those which still have thyristors make a wonderful sound! They should keep them all, and refurbish the insides.
It’s a matter of getting spare parts making them increasingly expensive to maintain. Had Network South East been able to continue with the standard EMU for the rest of the Southern when the rest of the slam doors were finally replaced in the 00s, I guess there would have been a supply chain of swappable and standard parts. Privatisation wrecked it of course.
Perhaps Southeastern could lend some of the Class 387/1 units from Great Northern until new trains are built. With CAF, Alstom, Siemens, Hitachi and others that could manufacture new trains as a replacement of the Class 465 and Class 466.
And to transfer the Class 377/2 that Southeastern are using to be cascaded back to Southern once the new trains are in service and the Class 387/1 transferred back to GN or cascaded to Southern.
Since Siemens have built the Class 707 Desiro City that were used on South Western Railway. My suggestion would be if they would build new trains similar to the Class 707 “City Beam” Desiro City to replace the Class 465 and Class 466 Networkers.
Or if Alstom are the preferred manufacturer to build and manufacture the new Adessia rolling stock to replace the Class 465 and Class 466. And with the Class 375, Class 707 or Class 376 to operate the Grove Park-Bromley North line.
The 376s are no good for South Central as they have no DOO cameras and monitors fitted.
Also South Central will STILL have a net reduction in stock after the cascades, the withdrawn 455s and 313s bit heavily.
Steve White kept talking about Greater Anglia and cascaded stock on his Green Signals interview. But GA bought an ENTIRE new fleet. SE isn’t going to be able to do this as it was always a loss making franchise, the DFT won’t have it. So it’s possibly going to be more hand me downs from somewhere. Are the withdrawn Desiros from the West Midlands franchise already capable of bi mode for third rail?
No the Desiro /2s are AC only,unlike the earlier 350/1s which are AC and DC
Indeed. And Northern are to lease the Class 350/2s so that they can replace the Class 323 on some of the electrified routes across Manchester and on the Gosslop and Hadfield lines. And the Class 350/1s are to stay at London Northwestern Railway.