TfL launch further consultation on DLR extension plan
Transport for London have launched a further consultation on plans to extend the DLR with a new branch calling at Beckton Riverside and Thamesmead.
This round of feedback is looking at four areas including the proposed stations:
- The proposed route and new station locations
- Impacts on the existing transport network and local communities
- Early environmental assessments and construction considerations
- How the extension could be delivered
South of the river sees the proposed station site at the far north of Thamesmead at the current Cannon retail park.
The retail park has long struggled to attract tenants. Those of us old enough and lived in the area may remember when a cinema was proposed in the 1990s. Few would shed tears to see it redeveloped.
Way back when Thamesmead was being drawn up in the 1960s this general area would have been a marina and town centre.
Good idea?
I’ve given my views on the extension many times (not a fan) so won’t bang on about it again, though whenever Thamesmead and transport topics arise there’s always a slew of misunderstanding about the town.
Almost always from people who have no knowledge of the town’s history or the reality in the present. Sadly I’m a bore who has read many a hostiry document about the time and TfL’s 2000s plans for the area- which were far better than what’s planned now.
To sum up, the most dense part of Thamesmead is to the south and already close to Abbey Wood station and won’t benefit from the DLR proposal. Thamesmead west is generally low rise 1990s suburbia and a DLR extension won’t benefit residents there as Abbey Wood station is quicker to reach, nor will it those in west Thamesmead who will be closer to stations in Woolwich.
Those in Thamesmead central which consists of the last stages of the original brutalist design (though greatly simplified by then) will also find it of little use given the Elizabeth line will take no longer to reach and offers many more destinations at higher frequency.
When people talk of Thamesmead being “cut off” remember this project does next to nothing for the vast majority of existing residents. Abbey Wood station will still be easier to reach.
Greenwich Council have trotted out some odd lines stating: “Extending the DLR would transform Thamesmead and provide a huge connectivity boost to south-east London and beyond.”
Well it won’t, as it won’t serve most of Thamesmead let alone the wider area. No connection to Abbey Wood station either.
They continue: “Thamesmead is the only London postcode without a direct train link” which is a very simplistic way to look at it given thousands of homes in south Thamesmead are a few minute’s walk from Abbey Wood station.
But because they have an SE2 postcode that means the DLR is somehow the best option to enable housebuilding in the town even if to the detriment of the rest of Thamesmead and nearby designated growth areas.
They often don’t seem to have much of a clue about Abbey Wood and Thamesmead and that’s demonstrated yet again. It’s pretty shocking how Greenwich, Bexley, TfL and politicians confuse the two towns, let alone the vast and differing characteristics of Thamesmead’s disparate parts. Detached is an understatement.
Look, I know it’s not a fashionable area but at least learn the basics.
The extension is to enable new housing in north Thamesmead with landlowners such as Peabody, Lendlease, Aberdeen Investments, St William (Berkeley Homes) to benefit.
Now, that area is fine and ideal for much needed high density housing but the question is whether other schemes could benefit, both in north Thamesmead and more of the wider area of Thamesmead plus nearby growth areas in Belvedere and Erith alongside those to the west with a separate branch heading through Charlton Riverside to Greenwich peninsula.
The DLR is a very expensive project that won’t assist those growth areas.
What many would surely want at north Thamesmead is a high capacity, high frequency link that takes five minutes to reach the the excellent links at Abbey Wood station with the Elizabeth line, Thameslink and Southeastern services. A tram in other words.
TfL’s previous consultation never seriously considered a wider tram network to benefit nearby areas designated for major housing growth. They only looked at a short tram from North Thamesmead to Abbey Wood which was oddly reductive.
No links to other nearby growth areas. Almost designed to write it off as an option.
The extension would also make any extension from Barking Riverside to Dagenham Dock far harder despite planned homes doubling from 10,000 to 20,000 last year.
A London Overground extension was built for 10,000 new homes, but low frequency, five carriage trains will struggle with a now doubled housing total.
Given the many flaws inherent in the project whether the DLR is ever built remains to be seen. If it does, the lack of extension potential and impact on other growth areas such as Barking Riverside, Erith, and Belvedere may see it become a bit of a white elephant.
At £1.7bn this project benefits few south of the river.
A few observations from the optioneering report:
– A grade separated junction is proposed between the Beckton and Thamesmead branches
– Passive provision will be left for an extension to Barking, also with grade separated junctions toward Thamesmead and Custom House
– The Beckton station appears to sever much of the new development in two – I wonder why it can’t be lined up closer to the DLR depot, or put in a cut/cover box.
– Stubs appear to be built into the viaduct at Thamesmead to make an extension to Belvedere easier (Manchester Metrolink had a similar arrangement at Pomona)
– An east-facing turnback is proposed either at Royal Victoria or Canning Town
– Appears to be no update on the proposal to remove safeguarding for the Thames Gateway Bridge alignment (it would be foolish to remove this imo even with the push for active travel)
The turnback and grade separation are both helpful additions and guide to a higher frequency at least to Custom House than I expected before (albeit it will still be constrained by the branch splitting into two). While I share your reservations about the cost benefit of this vs a proper tram network that connects Abbey Wood to Custom House and Barking, it is good at least to see some forward planning in their thinking.
If a separate branch heads to Barking/Dagenham Dock that makes three branches. What tph can be achieved on each? A low tph makes it even more unappealing in N Thamesmead and many will head to the Liz line.
I’ll wager it now any extension to Belvedere is not happening. Need for grade separation makes it hard through central and west Thamesmead let alone e on to Erith. That’s where a team at street level makes sense. A grade separated DLR doesn’t work in those growth areas.
Surprised no removal of safeguarding at bridge site. Bey then, even if removed, for most future housing in that area the Liz line in Woolwich is a far better prospect than DLR station to east. No difference in times to reach yet one offers much better frequency and options. And it’s not the DLR at Thamesmead.
DLR peak capacity is 30tph, to max it out at a guess you’ll close the Beckton stub and have 15tph from Barking (7.5tph to Stratford Intl, 7.5tph to the turnback at Royal Victoria/Canning Town) and 15tph from Thamesmead (7.5tph to Tower Gateway*, 7.5tph to Royal Victoria/Canning Town). That gives 15tph into Custom House which isn’t bad, especially if the line is extended down to the Moorings and Belvedere.
But to your point, if money were tight I would rather have a BRT/tram system with a wider catchment rather than a DLR that basically just serves the new builds on the Waterfront and isn’t useful to anyone else.
My argument to TfL at the last consultation was that it makes better sense having a separate mode work solely from new platforms at Custom House, over the old alignment to Beckton, and crossing the river onto Thamesmead. This could either be a new DLR branch, or a separate tram/BRT system also linking to Woolwich/Abbey Wood, and in either case would free up DLR network capacity while cutting journey times vs what’s proposed here. Neither of these options were explored when the original optioneering process was run.
*One of my criticisms is that this extension is being labelled as providing a direct connection to the City when in reality it either won’t exist or will need to pinch capacity from other branches, and nearly everyone will be changing at Custom House for the Lizzie line anyway. Politically I can’t see TfL letting it launch without a City connection so I think they would route the existing Tower Gateway to Beckton service to Thamesmead, and instead send Beckton services to Stratford Intl. Any further capacity beyond Canning Town for either Beckton/Thamesmead/Barking would need to take capacity away from the Woolwich branch – albeit noting that Woolwich’s full capacity isn’t being used at the moment.
Interesting details. My guess its the professional TfL network planners trying to make the best of a bad idea foisted on them by the commercials side who are selling the network off to the highest bidder…
Still doesn’t change the fact it’s pointless south of the river, but at least tries to protect the future options north of the river.
It would be great to see the DLR extension to both Beckton and Thamesmead. But Sadly really cannot see it happening anytime soon. Certainly not before the next General Election in around 2029.
Sadly I cannot see any any extension to the Elizabeth Line anytime soon. But agree an extension to Belvedere and Erith would be excellent and provide more integrated services in Outer London.
I do believe that the DLR extension to Thamesmead should still happen and for Thamesmead to have a new DLR station built for the people of Thamesmead to travel into Central London and Canary Wharf. And perhaps extend the DLR to Dagenham Dock to have interchange with c2c.
Plus with proposal to extend the DLR to Abbey Wood so it can connect with the Elizabeth Line, Southeastern and Thameslink. And the Elizabeth Line to extend to Dartford and Gravesend.
You paying for this Andrew?
Haha nope as if I would. I’m no no millionaire.
I agree with Nathan. I believe a BRT would be better in the first instance to cover a wider area serving more homes and new developments around the Borough including Thamesmead, Abbey Wood. Woolwich, Charlton and Greenwich Peninsula. The BRT could also serve the new Silvertown Tunnel.and link with areas like Canning Town, Canary Wharf, Beckton or Stratford.east of the river. Which are other growth areas
I thought this scheme was dead in the water following the recent Government spending review. So somewhat surprised to see TFL spending more money on a further consultation…
I still believe that the DLR extension to Thamesmead will still happen and with future plans to extend to Dagenham Dock to have interchange with c2c.
And a new DLR station at Barking Riverside to be built to have out of station interchange with the London Overground Suffragette Line (Gospel Oak-Barking Riverside).
In the current financial position it’ll be one or the other. If the DLR to Thamesmead happens expect nothing with the Bakerloo extension, trams or extensive BRT serving the many SE London growth areas or DLR to Dagenham via 20k new homes in Barking Riverside. Its why it’s such a poor priority. If money was plentiful perhaps, but we’ve seen under Reeves and the spending review it’s not happening. And the Tories and Reform won’t do it.